Currently Saba is Professor of
Educational Technology at San Diego
State University (1984-present),
where he teaches courses on distance
education, and cyberculture.
He is
also the founder of Distance-Educator.com,
which is a popular online news and
information resource for distance
education practitioners.
His consulting work has included
many corporations and public
institutions, including Apple
Computer Inc., Digital Equipment
Corporation (merged with
Hewlett-Packard through Compaq),
Nortel, the U. S. Department of
Education, Harvard Business School
Publishing, the Office of the
Governor of the State of
Connecticut, the Office of the
Chancellor of the California State
University System, the World Bank
and the San Diego County Office of
Education.
Recently, Educational Pathways
(EP) interviewed Saba to get a
general sense of his viewpoints on
what he refers to as the
"postmodern" practice of distance
education.
EP: It seems that a "Tower-
of-Babel" effect has grown in
relation to the terminology used to
define and discuss distance
education. We read and hear about
distance education being referred to
as "distance learning," "online
learning," "asynchronous learning
networks," "distributed learning,"
"Web-based learning," "elearning,"
the list goes on . . . What’s your
opinion about this confusion of
terms?
Saba: The terminology in the
theoretical literature of distance
education is very clear. The field
has more than 40 years of organized
theoretical literature in which
terms have been defined
operationally, and measurable
variables have been introduced to
study them.
In recent years, many new
practitioners have joined the field
who, simply did not bother to look
at the literature. So, when they
came across something that was new
to them, they simply ascribed a new
name to the phenomenon that was
unfamiliar to them. Therefore, you
see a conceptual confusion in the
lay literature.
Editor’s note: See "The Year
Ahead: ‘Conceptual Confusion’ in
Distance Education," inside the
Saba’s Corner link at
www.distance-educator.com.
EP: What kind of misinformation
should distance educators be aware
of?
Saba: In our age of instant media
communication, it is not only up to
those who are looking for valid and
reliable information about distance
education, but for information in
any subject, to be discerning
consumers. When reading about the
field, it is a good idea to ask who
wrote the article, what are his/her
credentials and how was the article
written? Is it data-based and
theory-driven or just based on data
without regard for theory? How was
the data analyzed? How were the
conclusions made? Did the analysis
meet the critical criteria expected
in a scholarly work?
In looking through many articles
each week, I see that most of the
articles published are based on the
personal conjectures of the author.
Very few articles are informed by
carefully collected data when such
data collection and analysis is
informed by theory. So, we have a
situation now that the majority of
published information in the field
consists of uninformed opinion.
EP: We continuously hear how
student-to-student "interaction" in
the online classroom is a vital key
to creating positive learning
outcomes. Do you subscribe to this
notion of interaction being a key to
success? What kind of strategies do
faculty need to be aware of when it
comes to facilitating significant
interaction inside their online
courses?
Saba: The research that I have
conducted on the subject over the
years is very clear about this
matter. Simply put, each learner
requires a certain amount of dialog
and structure to succeed. The amount
varies for each student. Some
learners are comfortable with a high
amount of structure (low dialog);
while others require high dialog
(low structure). The problem arises
when institutions and faculty forget
that distance education is a
postmodern practice, and does not
lend itself to modern practices.
Modernism was about
standardization. Its objective was
to make sure that one size would fit
all. Postmodern practices are about
fulfilling individual needs.
Distance in education is
therefore defined by the requisite
dialog and required structure. Its
level differs for each student,
subject matter and other variables
involved. The "transaction" between
the student and the instructor
determines the level of dialog and
structure at each moment in time
during a course of instruction.
EP: It often seems that faculty
are being thrown into distance
education without being adequately
trained. For example, many new
distance education faculty may only
get a short online course, or a few
face-to-face seminars or meetings
before being, so to speak, thrown
into a sink or swim situation. What
kind of training do new distance
education faculty really need in
order to be properly equipped for
teaching in this environment?
Saba: Well, faculty, usually do
not have any training whatsoever to
teach in conventional education
either. So, why would anyone think
that they need special training for
distance education? The dirty little
secret is that teaching in higher
education has been a craft oriented
profession. Each faculty has had his
or her style and strategy for
teaching. It has been a pre-modern
practice.
Distance education is a
postmodern practice. This means that
it requires a certain level of
standardization before faculty can
exert their individual styles with
confidence and respond to the
individual needs of their learners
with assurance.
To achieve that level of modern
standardization, faculty need to
know about pedagogy and technology.
There are no requirements for
faculty to have this knowledge at
the present time. Faculty are hired
and promoted everyday who are not
aware of any pedagogical principles,
and they are not familiar with
instructional technology even for
classroom teaching, let alone for
distance teaching and learning.
Another aspect of this problem is
that in modern institutions there is
a division of labor. Modernism, in
part, is defined by a division of
labor.
Again, teaching in higher
education is in a pre-modern stage
of development. So, there are no
instructional designers,
programmers, graphic designers,
videographers, marketing experts,
etc. helping faculty to teach a
course. Can you imagine if a Detroit
auto worker was asked to design a
car, build it single handedly, ship
it, market it, etc.?
Finally, why would any faculty
lend his or her time to further
training - to have the privilege of
teaching the same number of students
with more complicated means? See,
distance education is a system of
interrelated parts. Faculty are just
one part of that system, albeit an
important part. When there are parts
that are missing, you cannot just
dump additional tasks on facultys’
shoulders and blame them for not
having the training to perform those
tasks. Faculty development would
work, only when other parts of the
system are in place. No matter how
much training you offer faculty, he
or she cannot compensate for a good
programmer, or a graphic designer;
as a pilot, for example, cannot
compensate for an air traffic
controller even with additional
training.
EP: There’s always discussion
going on about course management
systems (CMS). Is it feasible to
build your own CMS? Which one is
better: Blackboard, WebCT, eCollege,
Angel, IntraLearn, etc.? Which has
the best customer support? What do
distance educators and
administrators really need to
understand about course management
systems?
Saba: I designed my own and built
it with the assistance of a very
talented student who is now a
colleague at Distance-Educator.com.
At the time, there were no course
management (or learning management)
systems in the market, and I was
teaching about the subject. So, I
had to create my own solution. But
you cannot expect a faculty in
history, geology or math to build
his or her own system. That is just
not feasible.
A complete response to your
question, however, requires at least
a chapter in a book, if not a
complete book. There are many
variables that are involved in
selecting CMSs. We offer guidelines
on Distance-Educator.com for such
selections. We also publish new
information about products, and
product upgrades in the Daily News,
so professionals can make informed
decisions.
EP: Research shows that distance
education can be just as good or
better than traditional education.
What would you say are the most
important elements for producing a
truly effective and meaningful
distance education experience?
Saba: The variables are numerous.
But at the highest level of design,
the most important element is the
extent to which a course, or an
instructional module can respond to
a learner’s individual need for
dialog and structure. These are the
variables for which we have solid
data and theoretical confirmation.
For further information on this
please, see: Saba, F. , & Shearer,
R. L. (1994). Verifying key
theoretical concepts in a dynamic
model of distance education. The
American Journal of Distance
Education, 8 (1), 36-59.
EP: How do you see libraries
fitting into the distance education
experience? What role should
academic libraries play in the
development of distance education
programs?
Saba: This is also a huge subject
on which books have been written. In
a nutshell, libraries play a central
role in individualizing learning for
students. I am not sure if they see
their role as such. I have seen some
librarians who have become
instructional designers, and are
helping faculty to organize their
course content. That may be
necessary in the short to mid range,
but in the long run librarians have
to realize that learning is a
self-organized human activity, and
to the point that they can make this
self-organization possible for the
learners they are going to succeed.
EP: What do administrators need
to know about the cost of developing
and maintaining distance education
programs?
Saba: Again, this is another
major topic that requires chapters,
if not volumes, to discuss. In
short, they need to find out why
education is the only human
institution in which the
introduction of technology has not
brought down the cost of individuals
served. In education, in most cases,
we have managed to do the same old
thing with more expensive means! In
many distance education operations
that I have examined, significant
elements of a successful system are
missing. Therefore, contrary to what
was believed a few years ago,
distance education has not brought
down the cost of education, let
alone turn in a profit.